“We tried to go against the grain”

Estonia’s Eurovision 2025 entry Tommy Cash has spoken to NME about the inspirations behind his controversial song ‘Espresso Macchiato’ and his hopes for winning. Watch the new video for the single and read the interview below.

This year’s contest will be held in Basel, Switzerland, with its final being aired on May 17. Cash was crowned the winner of Estonia’s selection competition Eesti Laul by clinching the public vote with ‘Espresso Macchiato’.

The lyrics, which reference Italian cultural icons like the mafia (“I work around the clocko/ That’s why I’m sweating like a mafioso“) and spaghetti (“Life is like spaghetti, it’s hard until you make it”), have garnered both bemusement from viewers and demands for the track to be banned.

Cash, who has previously released hits like ‘PUSSY MONEY WEED’ and an explicit music video parodying the Sex Olympics, has also shocked his fans with the more subtle direction of his latest song.

Now, Cash has spoken to NME about being this year’s “joke entry” with the unexpected song, what fans can expect from his final Eurovision performance – which was inspired by the likes of Prince and Michael Jackson – and more. Check out the full interview below.

NME: Hi, Tommy! Before entering the competition, what was your history with Eurovision?

Tommy Cash: “Everyone has a history with Eurovision. It is the biggest singing competition in the world. It’s very popular where I’m from – all your family watch it. We, of course, watched it together; I have favorites from that year. Also, when I was a child, Estonia won. I remember the flashy shows and the funny songs, when Ruslana won or when Lordi won – they’re colorful performances.”

Estonia hasn’t won since 2001, right?

“Yes, and we have to correct this!”

You’ve said you think you’re Estonia’s best representative for Eurovision. Why do you think that is?

“Well, there’s a lot of factors. If you saw the shows, I think we have the most interesting approach to it. I think I am the most seasoned artist from Estonia, as I’ve been doing this for years and years: figuring out how to perform, how to work with the crowd, how to move, and also how my brand is. If you put two and two [together], then we have the equation.”

You’re paying very close attention to social media – how have you digested the response to your song so far?

“I don’t know. You can have 5,000 positive comments and one negative comment, you’re like, what do you mean? But we were literally trending in pretty much every European country. The numbers speak for themselves.

“Everyone has an opinion, and I know with every move we make, people figure it out more. At first, I released the song. People were like, ‘This is not Tommy’. Then they showed the show, and 20 per cent changed up: ‘Now I like it’. Now they’ll see the actual music video and again, people will change up, because it’s layered: we peel it off more. But it’s mostly overwhelming positivity from people.”

Have any Italian people spoken to you about the song?

“Oh, yes. I was in Zurich, wanting to have this lowkey meal at this joint. The next table was Italian: ‘Are you Tommy?’ My food was in my mouth! I was like, ‘Yeah’. ‘Can we have a picture with you?’ I was like, ‘Yeah, can I please finish my food?’

“We also had some Italian gaffers on set when we were shooting the music video. I was outside having a break and they came to me like, ‘Do you know you’re a legend in Italy now? It’s been very, very cute.”

There were some concerns that the song was offensive. For a man who released a music video about the Sex Olympics, how offensive would you say this song is to you?

“Zero, absolutely zero. It never even crossed my mind, but it’s weird; when you’re afraid something is offensive, it never is. And when it’s actually not, it’s like Murphy’s Law. The world works in funny ways.”

Are you a little pleased that even when you’re trying to avoid controversy, it still comes your way?

“I love strong feelings. Also with the Eurovision fandom, the song can’t stay in the middle. Mostly I see all love, but if you don’t like it, you don’t like it, and that’s the best: that’s when people talk about it, when art works. It really touches you or moves you or makes you feel. If it’s in the middle, it doesn’t work. So it’s all working.”

A lot of people would characterise your song this year as being a joke entry. We’ve seen an increasing rise in these sorts of acts, like Joost Klein and Windows95man from last year alone. How will your performance respond to this increasing type of artistry at Eurovision?

“The phrase ‘joke entry’ is interesting. It’s a Eurovision term because of the betting. But I also think when your song is not [immediately seen as] 100 per cent valid, it is taken as a joke entry. I really wanted to have a balance, but I’m really serious. I’m not trying to be like ‘Trollolololol’, you know. I’m taking it very seriously.

“It’s also because of the show. I really wanted to bring back the purity of old performances when there was just a guy with some dancers: the kings, like Prince, James Brown, Michael [Jackson]. I’m not driving in a huge coffee cup. I wanted to keep it skill-based because it’s not easy to do.

“The first video [see below], inspired by Warhol, it was also [about] the purity. You’ll see in the next video, it’s evolved. But I want to go to the basis of being an artist. I see power in minimalism.”

You’ve previously claimed your grandmother cried when she listened to the song. Can you tell us about that?

“My grandma visited me at my home. And I told my grandma, ‘Sit down: I think this is the Eurovision song’. It was before it was chosen, and I played [it]. You know how grandmas are, they put their hands together – and this is so heartwarming – she got teary-eyed. By the end of the song, she stood up doing this grandma dance. She was like, ‘Oh my God, this is so beautiful’.

Are you trolling us right now?

“No, no, no, I’m not trolling, I’m deadass! I have a video! You know, the beauty of the song, it’s also the fight of my fandom: ‘This is not what I was waiting for from Tommy Cash!’ But the funny thing is, if I came out with something you were waiting for, that would be a fail from me – it’s not surprising.

“The thing is it’s very hard to surprise these days. If I released something similar, it would be very boring for me as an artist. I have a lot of songs which have gabber or hip hop backgrounds, they give you this bounce, right? It’s so much harder to do it like this [this song].

“We tried to go against the grain with what people think will happen with a Tommy Cash song, or how a big percentage of the Eurovision songs go: they have this change up in the end, but that’s the easy way out. It’s very hard to perform with a song like this.”

You’ve also said that dance is really important to the character, and it’s very wiggly and loose as you can see in the video. Where did you draw your inspirations for it?

“This is really how my body works because I’ve had this liquid style since I was 16. I used to be a dancer going to battles, and I was working on this liquid movement. This was natural; it wasn’t done by a choreographer.”

The other thing we noticed about the video is that you’re playing two characters. Will there be a continued narrative all the way up until the final performance?

“I don’t know if I should spoil it, I would really like to keep people guessing. But I like that they see another side of Tommy, there’s many sides to him. And I like to let him out.”

For a lot of Eurovision artists, they’ll put out a song, perform it over and over again, and then get to the final and that’s it. But you seem more interested in the actual progression of the campaign.

“100 per cent. For me, it’s like a caterpillar to a butterfly.”

So will we be able to expect even more from the final performance?

“Of course, we added some stuff. I’m sure people will be very pleased. We took off stuff that didn’t work, left the stuff that works and got more things to play around with.”

Now, nearly all the Eurovision acts have been announced. How likely do you think you’re going to win?

“I want to win! I will do my best because I know things will be moving soon. The two weeks of interviews are going to get really interesting. I really want to win and do it for my country. I think we have very good chances, and we’re really putting our energy and effort into it.”

In other Eurovision news, it was confirmed earlier this month that pop trio Remember Monday will be the UK’s 2025 entry with their ballad ‘What the Hell Just Happened’.